10TH FEBRUARY 2015
I can't believe what they have done to that beautiful bay. My family and I spent many holidays down there and loved every minute, we thought it was one of the best beaches in England.
Why have they done this? The last time my husband and I were there they were going to build luxury apartments. Please rebuild it like it was with really great amenities, let's have it back, so we can enjoy the bay.
Dianne from Warwickshire.
8TH FEBRUARY 2015
Carlyon Bay was the best times that I have ever had in all my born days.
Six weeks of the year me and my two brothers and mom and dad would holiday down at Par Sands.
Carlyon Bay was just great. 1963 we started going down there as a family until it closed. Great times, please bring them back again.
SUNDAY, 3RD AUGUST 2014
Myself and my wife live in South Wales and have visited Cornwall every year since 2007.
I remember Carlyon Bay in the 80s and couldn't believe what we saw when we visited over the last few years.
It was a beautiful beach which has been absolutely decimated and totally ruined by developers.
Last month we stayed in Falmouth for a fortnight and paid a visit to Carlyon which now actually resembles Beirut. I have never seen anything like this and it fails me to think how the Council planning dept can allow this to carry on.
I think all traces should be removed and the area restored back to its original natural state and the developers prosecuted for what they have done to the area.
THURSDAY, 31ST JULY 2014
I think that what has happened to the Cornwall Coliseum is a really sad story.
The way I see it is it was made as an entertainment venue and place to enjoy yourself. The fact that the Lovett family spent so much money and effort on that place shows that they were good people, they understand what a lovely place they had inherited and kept it going for years. Then typically it's the same old story isn't it, we need money to keep this wonderful place going and no one will give it to them.
I am surprised that Cornwall council didn't offer them any money, considering that the Coliseum was attracting a lot of people! Clearly tourism doesn't matter to them.
As a child I actually had the pleasure of going there to see a pantomime and the first memory that will always stick with me is the huge black scrolling screen that welcomed you as soon as you drove down to the car park. I had a few rides on the miniature railway, walked along the beach a few times, and a few years later performed in the musical Ocean World; if anyone remembers that? Sadly Ocean World was quite probably one of the last acts to perform inside the Main room and even then the main screen had stopped working save for the tiny flashing Coliseum star in the top left corner. It was also apparent then that the place was falling in to disrepair. This was about 1994ish if I remember correctly, and I think not long after that was when the Coliseum was closed for good - bar Gossips. Now considering that I had only been alive for about 10 years I was disappointed when this place just closed down, just like that.
When I think of what used to be there it deeply saddens me and I am getting increasingly fed up with these so called developers that just spring out of nowhere to develop somewhere into complete s***. Yes it is always complete s***. I know that we all need houses but we also need entertainment venues, things to do.
Even though I only visited Carlyon Bay beach a few times as a child, I do agree with a lot of people that it did have a magical charm about it.
I only hope that one day someone other than a get rich quick yuppie developer restores this place to its natural beauty.
I see that a lot of people posting here are all middle aged or older. Well I am 28 and I just want you to know I share your pain.
23rd July 2014
I would like to state that I fully support the actions being taken by CBW in respect of the beaches at Carlyon bay.
I used to work - and play - at what was the Cornwall Coliseum, from 1978 (pre-Coliseum days) to 1983, during the holidays (Christmas, Easter and Summer) whilst I was at college - happy days.
Prior to that, in my teens, friends and I would often go to the beach and use the pool and other facilities on a regular basis - with no access restrictions.
It amazes, and indeed horrifies me, from what I've read, that the developer CEG claims
the whole area to be a brownfield site.
I've attached a Google Maps image of what I believe and certainly from what it was like when I worked there, as to what could reasonably be classified as brownfield (marked in red), and what, through their actions, CEG have turned into a brownfield site (marked in grey).
The only real excuse they might have to claim that the whole site is a brownfield site, is the fact that it is the product of industrial waste deposits, brought about by the diversion of the river carrying those deposits away from Par.
I remember in the late 1960s swimming in the sea off the beach, when it was still a milky blue colour, due to the china clay deposits that were then still being washed out to sea.
At that time the beach was an already well established leisure site, regularly used by the public.
However, apart from where the ruins of the Coliseum stand, no other large scale permanent construction existed anywhere else on the site.
Once the beach had stabilised near the cliffs, nature soon took over and established itself.
Even when the building was modified and enlarged, apart from the Wimpy bar and amusement arcade, everything was kept pretty much within the footprint of the original building.
There are many static caravan parks up and down the country which, apart from a few permanent structures, would not acquire a brownfield status, even if all the caravans were removed. There are not, and never have been, any permanent residences on the beach.
The erection of the sea defences, without planning permission, in 2004, the clearance of the vegetation and re-routing the river outflow, clearly illustrates that the developer's intention from the start was to create a no-go area and a much larger brownfield site.
By restricting public access, something that none of the previous owners had done, they were clearly hoping that thy would eventually be able to close the beach to the public and make the whole site completely private, with no PROW.
For much of its existence, the beach has always been used for leisure activities, both by locals and holidaymakers. The developers have turned this once great south coast attraction into a dangerous and derelict eyesore.
The original Coliseum building was never attractive, but it did fulfil a function which brought joy and entertainment to the people of St Austell, the people of Cornwall and many more from much further afield.
It is my view that the beach in its entirety should be returned to such a function.
Martyn (aka Skippy in my Coliseum days)
READ Martyn's tongue in cheek blog
21st February 2014
I remember camping at Carlyon bay as a young teenager, it was a beautiful beach. My friends and I have a lot of happy memories.
This venture could have brought jobs and prosperity to the area? But why did it have to be so big? Who has allowed this once beautiful beach to be left in such a sorry state? Are the councillors to blame or the developers?
I wish the campaigners all the very best in their quest to have their beach restored to them and its former glory.
12th January 2014
I have just read a comment posted by Glenn on 30 December which is so factually wrong - as well as being grammatically appalling - that I felt |I had to write a counter to the rubbish he has written. I will try to keep this as brief as possible but I am seething at the misunderstandings (deliberate?) apparent in the comment.
1) Glenn claims the original '...great venue...was reuined (sic) by do gooders'. It did in fact go into terminal decline because other venues - in particular the Plymouth Pavilions - were developed into much more attractive places for touring shows than the Coliseum which was suffering from huge under-investment.
2) Glenn goes on about people shooting themselves 'in the foot getting involved in this just so there (sic) voice is heard'. What an extraordinary viewpoint. Hundreds and hundreds of people from far and wide have supported the actions of those who have voiced their views on potential over-development on what was once a well-used Cornish beach. These people have devoted thousands of hours in airing their beliefs - a strange thing to do 'just so there voice is heard'.
3) Glenn also claims '...they closed this site but id (sic) imagine its (sic) because it was too noisey (sic) etc for residence (sic) ... surely they would no (sic) this before they bought a house here'. The vast majority of local residents have lived in the area for many years, years before any new development plans emerged. It is also worth reminding Glenn that very few people are against redevelopment on the beach as long as it stuck to the original brownfield site and was in keeping with the surroundings. After all, when most locals moved here there was a successful concert venue and ancillary entertainment structures on the beach.
I would beg Glenn and anyone else who shares his mistaken views to check their facts before bursting into print.
Finally, can I say that it was more than magnanimous of Carlyon Bay Watch to publish these comments. At least we can all see how daft they are!
22nd May 2013
I came across your website while googling Carlyon Bay to try and understand why such a beautiful place was so run down. We recently spent 10 days touring Cornwall and when staying near St Austell we found Carlyon Bay on our map and decided to visit. We had never heard of the bay before and only decided to visit down to the location on the map and having not found many large beaches in the area, we thought it would be ideal to exercise our dog and maybe (if the weather had allowed) for us to have a swim in the sea. We parked in the car park and noticed the various re-development notices. In the distance above the tree's we could see the blue sea and the typically Cornish golden sand beach. The beach looked stunning from the distant car park view and we eagerly dressed in our walking boots etc and began the walk down the 80+ steps.. It's only as we began to approach the bottom of the steps did we get hit with disappointment when my husband noticed what looked like derelict warehouses. Suddenly the bay lost it's appeal and I refused to walk any further due to the "spooky" atmosphere that had suddenly become apparent. It was such a shame as the beach looked so inviting but how could something so awful be hidden there waiting to ward off any visitors. I was so saddened, and promised myself that I would look further into this on our return home. After spending the last hour looking through your website I felt I had to put my thoughts to words to echo what has already been mentioned on your website. It is so sad that such a naturally beautiful place is so unappealing due to the derelict abandoned buildings located on the foreshore. I personally know the effect of various planning complications but surely it would be such a benefit if the buildings could be demolished and at least the bay returned to it's natural level of beauty, without the need for further re-development. It would appear from your website that not a great deal of work has been carried out on the site since 2006, this is a great shame and I can't imagine how many others like ourselves have been put off by such an awful backdrop, if only the buildings and rugged sea defences and other non natural structures could be removed. I will continue to check back at your website from time to time in hope that something will be done to Carlyon Bay so that it can be fully appreciate once again for it's natural beauty.
Hullo Hilary, 23.05.13
Our very many thanks for your e-mail, which encapsulates the feelings of so many people who visit our beach. We shall continue to do whatever is possible to attain an early restoration of the shoreline although, presently, the developer has stated they intend to ‘mothball’ the site for the foreseeable future.
Thankyou again for writing, kind regards, Peter, for Carlyonbaywatch.
24th February 2013
I have been coming to Cornwall for 30 years, I always remember the first time I seen Carlyon Bay from the top of Carclaze, my wish was to live there, my wish came true 2 years ago, but I was in for a shock, I only found out when I moved that I could access the beach, my first thoughts was, why is there an old factory there, after research and seeing old photos I was amazed to find out it was the place to be in years gone bye, how did it ever get in the state it is in today, I would love to see it restored to its former glory, I know this will never happen and now looks such a eyesore, I think it should now be knocked down, cleaned up and given back to the people of St Austell for there enjoyment, if it is developed now, I think the people of St Austell will pay a high price for their enjoyment."
9th November 2012
My wife & revisited this area yesterday, Thursday 8th November, & felt a great feeling of sadness as to how this naturally created once beautiful piece of Cornish real estate has been left to rot & deteriorate the way it has. Many years ago I used to visit this area when working in Cornwall just to ‘chill’ out for a lunch break & walk the sands & share the vibrancy of a local toruisty attraction which wasn’t too much in your face. Now it is exactly the opposite.
Following some of the controversy on the local news we were aware of the problems being encountered by you locals but never realised it was so blatant. And like other visitors we felt ‘unwelcomed’ by the Security guards. Not a smile & very difficult to get into any conversation when approached.
This sure is a sign of mans greed & careless attitude to fellow man when big money is at stake.
Good luck on what I am afraid you will find will be a lost cause ( I know my wife & I have fought a few here in our local area enough—& lost!!)"
D&S Chapman, Exeter
Hullo Mr & Mrs Chapman,
Many thanks for your note – we have very little by way of good news to offer at the moment of writing, but we are still batting on three wickets – first, one of our members has been told that the decision on her application for the extension of the footpath directly onto the beach from the bottom of the hill will be decided in December (after several years of pushing). Next, we have complained to the H & S Executive about the manner of gating the beach, and they’ve confirmed they will investigate that issue. Thirdly, we have reminded the Council that their ridiculously long enforcement order about the remainder of the illegal sea wall rock armour and sheet piling runs out on December 31st. They have told us they’ll be on the case early in the new year.
However, we are hoping that Hurricane Sandy on the other side of the Atlantic will have demonstrated to the developers the foolishness of their plan. All in all, there’s some way to go yet, before we pack up our tent. Meanwhile, thankyou both again for your encouraging e-mail. Kind regards, Peter, for Carlyonbaywatch
--------------------------------------------------------------------------Friday 17th February 2012
"Hello, my partner and I visited the beach for the first time last September and were delighted with it, and intrigued to hear something of the history..
I have finally got around to checking this out on the internet and am hugely depressed by what I've learned. The plans to effectively annex the beach for the use of the wealthy who will buy the accommodation are appalling. The idea that long-established public access to the beach can be curtailed in the pursuit of money is outrageous. I wish you every success in resisting it despite all that has gone before.
Best wishes Helen McComb, Gloucester"
From Juliet Aylward (CBW)
"Dear Helen McComb,
I'm glad you liked our part of the world and understand why we have fought so hard to try to reduce the size of this development so that it would be confined to the old leisure complex site. Unfortunately, as you have seen, money talks and it seems that those who make these decisions can't see beyond the short term with the developers' promises of jobs, "regeneration" etc.. In the mid to long term those of us who love our wonderful coastal scenery shudder to think what this part of it will look like once the developers have moved on and the shiny new buildings have been battered by our Cornish weather (maybe even threatened by rising sea levels) and it's no longer a "must have" place for people to want to spend their money on.
In the meantime (and so far there are no detailed plans and no timetable for the development) CBW is still making a nuisance of itself trying to make sure they don't ride roughshod over the local community."
24th January 2012
I live in Saltash and occasionally visit Charlestown, a fantastic, unspoiled village. Earlier this week I visited Carlyon Bay beach for only the 2nd time in my life to show a friend what a dreadful place it is. And I wasn't disappointed if that makes sense.
It strikes me that the real damage was done when the arena was built back in the 1960s, but the current situation is appalling. I know not who owns the site but they should be forced to demolish the existing buildings and clean the beach up. However, sadly I guess that is unlikely to happen.
My own view, which probably won't coincide with yours, is virtually anything would be better than what is currently there, and I say that without knowing what the developers are proposing. As a minimum though I would hope that access to the whole beach would remain open to us the public, as there seems something inherently wrong with private ownership of any stretch of beach, but as I said earlier virtually anything would be better than what is there now."
These emails are in response to the "yes" vote by the Cornwall Council Strategic Planning Committee on 30th June 2011.
So once again the voice of the people has been taken into account by those who are elected to represent us. In many democracies that would mean that the will of the majority would prevail and decisions would be taken in line with those wishes. Sadly in Cornwall things are very different. Those elected 'representatives' seem to think that they have the right to ignore the views of the public. They 'hear what we say' and then dismiss it. After all they only need our vote once every few years. What makes them act as if they are superior beings with no responsibility to the electorate?
The decision to approve the building of a town on a beach at Carlyon Bay flies in the face of every survey conducted among the existing residents, the vast majority of whom think these plans are just too big. Virtually everyone supports some development on the old Coliseum site but virtually no-one surveyed thinks the scale is right.
The developers have seemingly held a gun to the heads of our supine or arrogant representatives by planting the thought that if these plans aren't passed then they will leave the site to rot for another couple of decades as they have left it to rot for the last 21 years.
And it's not just Carlyon Bay which shows our blessed elected ones in their true colours. For a start just think 'St. Denis' or 'incinerator' then think of the other Cornish examples which fall into the same mould. It does make you wonder why we bother to vote or - if we do - who would show themselves honest and principled enough to deserve our vote.
I am saddened to my very core by these people."
R. Geary, Cornwall.
"Guile and Gullibility.
No, nothing from Jane Austen, just a personal comment upon our County Council – where it has long been made plain by word and action, although never admitted, that by approving the permanent destruction of acres of natural habitat and open sea shore, the wide, long beaches of Carlyon Bay shall be lost to the community for ever, and all in the name of Tou, the great god of Tourism.
The guile came in the many and often assurances that ‘localism’ would count, the assurances that local people were being heard, and in the public proclamations of ‘enough is enough’, for this was to be a step too far. The gullibility was the readiness, nay, eagerness, to swallow, hook, line and sinker, the deluge of propaganda and illusion that surrounded this planning process. It all started when the Planning Performance Agreement was signed in June 2009 behind closed doors during the interregnum twixt the Restormel Borough Council’s death and the birth of the Cornwall Council, and continued all the way to June 2011, when the sheep were herded into the pen at County Hall.
But that’s simply not true ! The gullibility had started way, way earlier, when we locals were assembled on a cliff-top in 1989 to be promised jobs, lots of them. It was that same day when an elderly lady who sought to make her point was told “shut up, you old bag”. Those jobs ? They melted instantly into the sand, for now there was a profit to be made – the site was promptly sold, together with its gigantic planning consent. The guile came again when, in 1995, a couple of last-minute marker stakes hammered into the ground were held to be of sufficient evidence to warrant a Certificate of Lawful Commencement. And yet again when the £30 millions wasted on in infeasible plan having been written off, the insistence that the 1999 consent was still “viable” continued (for more than twenty years) notwithstanding the irrefutable evidence to the contrary. How irrefutable is this evidence ? Will a project that was in 2006 publicly declared in part to be “dangerous to life and property” be sufficiently irrefutable ?
The guile that, in 2004, without a shred of planning consent and entirely unconsulted, created a truly massive structure built across nearly a mile of foreshore, a blight, nay, an environmental outrage, that has nonetheless enjoyed the enduring sympathy of the local authorities. Is it wrong to find that curious ? The guile that has kept this mighty but illegal and ugly structure in place for seven wasted years, despite a Guinness Book of Records three-year-long Enforcement Order, hard-fought for and won by local people. Why three years, and why still not completely obeyed, near four years later ? Is it wrong to find that curious ? You’ll need to ask your local authority about that, and the best of luck ! It will of course be said that this was Restormel Borough, and we are not Restormel, but the same people are still in charge, and Cornwall Council assumed at law the responsibilities of the now-dead Boroughs.
The gullibility came in so many forms. From those many local business-people with an eye to personal profit, who choose to ignore the pikestaff-plain evidence that massive out-of-town spending opportunities are sucking the very life-blood from the town centres of the United Kingdom. And from those who believe that traffic congestion to the point of gridlock will help to foster their interests. From those who believe the idea that temporary seasonal part-time jobs with anti-social hours and a wage at the National minimum level is the ideal work sought by our young people for their lifelong careers. The idea that the forces of nature can be denied their natural and inevitable role.
Perhaps worst of all, the guile that has denied, nay, treated with utter contempt, the wishes of those local people who will suffer the greatest impact. This despite the valiant efforts of our Parish Council. The evidence ? At least three separate surveys, conducted recently by three separate people, together more than six hundred opinions, almost all saying o.k., but please, please, please, not this big ! It would thus appear that this rare combination of guile and gullibility have served us all very badly, has signed the death warrant for localism, and has proven the strength of one of the oldest adages, that money talks. The problem is that it speaks here an extremely convoluted and destructive language."
This letter was received by Carlyon Bay Watch on 23rd March 2011.
"I have just completed (and posted) a survey AGAINST the Beach
development to Steve Double, Cornwall Conservatives, Roche. My husband and I swam each morning on Carlyon Bay Beach for 1966-87, holidays, 1987 - residents. All year round 8-9am. There were at least 10 bathers at this early hour. Unfortunately, our morning swims were discontinued owing to illness. I can unfortunately no longer take part in the demonstrations and "beach walks", correspondence etc. But you have my earnest heartfelt support to try to preserve this, once perfect, beach for the benefit of the coming generations and commercial effect on St Austell town."
The following letter to Cornwall Council planning department was copied to CBW.
I would like to express our strong objection to any development of Carlyon, Crinnis and Shorthorn beaches. The proposed plan would totally destroy an area of beauty and greatly reduce the size of the beach currently available to the public. I believe that the only possible area for development is the site of the Coliseum and associated buildings, an eyesore for far too long. Carlyon Bay is a lovely area in which to live and I believe that the proposed development would totally destroy our environment. Beach Road would be unable to cope with the increased traffic and the infrastructure required for such a development will put an intolerable burden on local services.
Maggie & Peter Farrow
21 March 2011
From Peter Browning (CBW) 08/03/2011 9.29am
"Hullo again Mr Ralphs. If you have only heard one 'side of the argument', as you put it, how, we feel entitled to ask, are you able to arrive at a fully and properly informed judgment? The inescapable fact is that the Luddites were very fully aware of what was happening to their lives ... Fortunately (and thankfully) however, their eighteenth century starvation, persecution, violence and death have never reached Carlyon Bay. Just plain old common sense. Regards, Peter."
From Antony Ralphs 08/03/2011 8.42am
"I HAVE ONLY HEARD YOUR SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT, CORRECTED LUDDITES."
From Peter Browning 07/03/2011 09.45am
"Thank you kindly Mr Ralphs for your contribution to the debate. If you would wish to be rather better informed, you are very welcome indeed to make further contact. Regards, Peter. ps: We take it that you intended 'Luddites'".
From Antony Ralphs 06/03/2011 3.05pm
From Richard Nicholson 17/11/10 11.30pm
"I have been watching with interest on the outcome of this conflict. I remember coming to Carlyon Bay during the summer holidays during the 60s and 70s and can recall many happy times there, my dad used to park right on the beach. Oh happy days!
I still visit my beloved Cornwall a few times a year and always pop down to Carlyon, each time hoping that I shall see the beach returned to its former glory. It's very disappointing to find it's still like a war zone down there. Why did the Council give Ampersand 2 years to get rid of the shuttering? If it were you or I building an illegal extension they would have made us do something a damn sight quicker.
May I suggest that the Council fine Ampersand for every day that the monstrosity that is the shuttering is still there after 8th December. Let's say £10,000 per day. This could be put towards the revenue lost from all the local shops, car parks, amenities etc. that have lost valuable trade from people that would have used the beach over the past 6-7 years.
Ampersand, Please, Up Sticks and GO!
Best wishes for a speedy conclusion."
From JRW 16/10/2010 5.42pm
"Why do you and others insist on calling Carlyon Bay beach 'man-made'? Before Ampersand tipped thousands of tons of rough builders sand there it was a golden yellow colour. China clay sand is white or pale grey, therefore the proportion of natural sand from cliff erosion etc. must have been greater in order for the beach to be yellow.
The clay workings in the catchment area that feeds the beach river are few and would have been very small during the period the waste sand is said to have been deposited. Also, water is the primary tool in hydro-mining and to waste billions of gallons to wash sand to Carlyon Bay would have been foolhardy even if the spare water was available. Water was conserved and recycled. The workings in the catchment area also had the old conical sand tips so where did the millions of tons of sand at Crinnis come from? I realise that some fine sand and mica would have washed there from the refining process but to call it a man-made beach is ridiculous.
Do the geologists maintain that Pentewan Beach is made from sand washed down the old 'white river' from a couple of pits in the Gover Valley and three or four near Carthew? I also doubt millions of tons were sent down the Fal from workings around St Dennis and Treviscoe. Please think again as calling it 'man-made' does your campaign no good.
Reply from Alan Francis, a geologist who has spent most of his career in the China Clay industry.
"Old maps show no beach at Carlyon Bay before the diversion of the aptly-named "Sandy" river. It was called thus because of the large load of sand it carried from the workings, which was clogging the old river mouth at Par and thus silting the harbour. Indeed, special 'adits' or drains were later mined through the Carlyon cliffs to help relieve the silting problem in the harbour. The whole of Par Moor is underlain by a depth of more than 80 feet of sand eroded from the china clay granite. Sand (or stent, as it is known in the industry, a by-product of the workings), added to natural erosion, had been fed into the Sandy River since Elizabethan times. Environmental legislation is a relative newcomer.
The White River is (again) so called because it was basically an industrial drain, carrying clay, mica and sand to the sea. It has an unnatural engineered straight course from the china clay area to the sea. This ensured that it was self-scouring. Good environmental and mining practice came about in the mid-1970s but until then this type of mining was relatively unregulated.
In the 1970s, I inspected the length of the Fal River to record the damage that could be attributed to the china clay industry.
Finally, I would say that if Carlyon Bay beaches were natural in origin and not 'man-made' they would match up to nearby Charlestown Beach, which is made up of large pebbles of the neighbouring killas rock."
D.H of North Yorkshire 28/2/2010
"I have been keeping an eye on developments on and off since I first heard about the problems caused by Ampersand some years ago. I find the new plan issue worrying. Having experienced how the planners operate (in North Yorkshire anyway) I am rather cynical about the whole process which clearly seems to be weighted in favour of developers. On the plans themselves I have a few observations:
'Social housing' and 'off site' leapt out at me. This looks like a deal is being struck for Ampersand to get what it wants in return for providing low cost housing stock perhaps on another, possibly brownfield, site provided by the council, hence off site. The 'social housing' will probably be priced out of the financial reach of ordinary Cornish people anyway.
The 'current brownfield site' will almost certainly turn out to be the site up to the ugly metal piles driven into the beach which form the boundary of the old development site that Ampersand created. They will probably argue it is brownfield because it has been developed.
Sadly I think you will probably turn out to be right about the change from holiday use to permanent because of the economic downturn.
Ampersand will probably want some profit and to keep its capital so selling units will be very attractive to them. So the rich folks get their waterfront apartments and the less well off Cornish get tiny overpriced cottages on a former industrial estate is my guess. In the process the soul gets ripped out of a historical piece of Cornwall.
Cornwall doesn't need developments that attack communities like this it needs small businesses to create long term employment for the Cornish people and you don't put them on beaches! I do hope you win this."